WEBVTT

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[indistinct conversations]

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[horns honking]

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[lighter clicking]

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[Ole Solvang] Can we ask you
some questions about what happened?

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[translator speaking Arabic]

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[translator speaking English]
This came from a plane.

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Mmm-hmm.

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[man speaking Arabic]
Cluster bomb.

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This is what went inside my body.

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[speaking English] Does he know how many
people altogether died in these attacks?

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[speaking Arabic]
In total, more than 200 kids

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and adults were injured.

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Two from my family were killed.

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My young daughter and another little girl.

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It was mass slaughter when the plane
fired the cluster bombs.

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[speaking English]
Six cluster bombs have been shot.

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He thinks the people wounded
are more than 200.

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Because most of the people in this area

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-have been wounded.
-[aircraft engine roaring]

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[woman speaking Arabic]
My God, my God!

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I beg you, please save us.

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[speaking English]
Where are we going to go?

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We need to go down.

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[woman speaking Arabic]
My God...he's firing.

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[man] This never stops.

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[woman]
This is what we suffered the other day.

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[translator speaking English]
Just like this.

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[speaking Arabic]
God, please curse the regime.

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What have we done?
Why do we deserve this?

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What is our crime?

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[continues speaking indistinctly]

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[man] They've passed for now.

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They did what they wanted to do.

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[speaking English] He's leaving now
because he's taken his shot,

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but I think sometimes he comes back.

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He attacked four or five times.
It happened before.

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[Ole] Uh... okay.

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Should we continue a little bit?

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You go first.

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[playing Fly me to the Moon]

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-[tune falters]
-[Anna Neistat chuckles]

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[Anna] Do you know
that's our wedding song?

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[Ole] It's our wedding song.

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[continues playing piano]

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I need to practice.

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[Anna] So math and what else more?

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And French.
And I know French and I know...

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[scoffs]

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So why don't you... study?

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-I mean, I know it. I studied for an hour.
-You always know everything.

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-I do.
-Come on, please.

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-I'll go do my French.
-Yep. Sounds good.

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Do we also need to send it off to
Arms and Children's Division?

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[gasps] We do.

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-[Anna exhales]
-[Ole chuckles]

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[protestors shouting on laptop]

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[man] These are the images and sounds

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that Syrian president Bashar al-Assad
doesn't want the world to see.

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Tens of thousands of protesters
chanting freedom slogans.

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For nearly 40 years,
Bashar al-Assad and his family

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has ruled the Syrian nation
with an iron grip.

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Now the President is possibly facing

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a threat against his regime
like never before.

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[protestors continue clamoring]

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[Anna]
Everything is happening very quickly.

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In Syria, people are being killed
when they go out to protest.

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And that's not to mention

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thousands of people
have been detained and tortured.

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And all of that just needs to stop.

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So we can't wait another five months.
We can't wait another year.

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We need to try to do something right now.

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So, "Support continued
monitoring and reporting

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on the human rights situation in Syria."

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[Ole typing]

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[Ole reading]

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[Anna] Passports? Tickets?

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[Ole] Yeah.

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[Anna] Ah, here we go.

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[cameraman] How do you feel
when you're wearing it?

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[Anna] I actually feel amazing
because I feel that--

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Yeah, it feels like invisibility cloak.

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Because when you are
traveling through checkpoints,

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nobody would say, "Open your face."

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As much as, obviously,
being a human rights activist,

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I find it outrageous that
women have to do that,

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um, forced to either by the society
or by their families.

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But, for me,
it's a lifesaver in many places,

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and something that allows me
to get the work done, so...

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[Anna] Want a gift from Syria?

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Like bullet casings or shells?

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Bits of shrapnel, always welcome.

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And I'll be calling you every night
around 9:00 your time. Yeah?

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-Bye-bye.
-[Danya] Bye.

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Oh!

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[Danya] Bye, guys.

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[Ole] Have fun at your Dad's, Danya!

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[Anna] There's always this thing,
when, you know,

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it's the first time
we're doing this kind of trip.

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I am fully aware that things may go wrong,

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but it's stupid to get nervous

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because then you just go completely nuts.

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Strawberries. Look at the strawberries.

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Oh, those look so nice.

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Over the last couple of years,

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our security procedures
have become so much more elaborate.

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The problem is that now
it's obviously much more hassle for us.

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[Ole] The security procedures
are there for a reason.

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I think we all recognize that.

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Right, and Ole's also Norwegian,
so he just follows the rules.

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[Ole] Why don't we just park here?

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[Anna]
Uh, I'm not sure you can just park here.

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-I just did.
-[razzes]

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[Anna]
Hello, Mahmoud, so nice to meet you again.

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-How's the family?
-[Mahmoud] Fine, thanks.

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[Ole] They're good?
[Mahmoud] Yes.

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[Ole] Good.

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So, the plan is--
Okay, let's just go back one step.

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So we'll-- Wednesday morning,
we'll just drive to the border here.

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Yeah? And then we cross?
We walk across the border?

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[Mahmoud]
Of course, we have to cross the fence.

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There is a fence.

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But we have to be careful, you know...

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Otherwise,
the gendarme [military police] will...

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[Ole] Stop us.

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Yeah, of course.

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[Ole]
And you would be able to come as well?

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But don't tell my mother. [chuckles]

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-[all chuckling]
-Okay, we won't tell your mother.

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Don't tell mine, either.

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Uh, I think we can fit in the back.

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[Mahmoud stuttering]

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[Anna]
Maybe Ole and I can just sit there.

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I can sit on his lap. No problem.

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[speaking Arabic]
We have to go fast!

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Calm down.

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[camerawoman speaking English]
What are we gonna have to do?

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We're gonna have to jump out of the car
and run as soon as we get to the border.

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We are ready?

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[man speaking indistinctly]

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[indistinct conversations]

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[dog barking]

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[men talking indistinctly]

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[hissing]

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[Mahmoud] There's a problem with the...

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[Ole] What do we do
if there are any border guards there?

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What do we do
if somebody starts shouting at us?

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[man] You have to follow him.

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[Ole] Okay.

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[man speaking Arabic]
Okay, get out fast!

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[engine starting]

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[indistinct talking]

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-[speaking English] We're in Syria.
-[men chuckle]

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[Anna] Welcome to Syria.

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[men speaking Arabic]
Hello, how are you?

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What's up?

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I don't think anybody saw us.

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[speaking English]
We're in Syria. Apparently, we're safe.

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[Mahmoud] Of course--
[Ole] This one okay?

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Do you want to show me how to use it?

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[man] Now he's Lawrence...

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Lawrence of Arabia.

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[Ole] Will they give me
a Kalashnikov as well?

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[all laughing]

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[Anna] It's all yours.
Grab any one you want.

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[Ole laughing] It's okay. It's all right.
[Mahmoud] To take photos.

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[man 1 speaking Arabic] It's short!

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[man 2] This is her abaya?

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She doesn't look like a real Syrian.

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[speaking English]
Put your...

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[speaking Arabic]
If she knew how good she looked,

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she'd wear that all the time.

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[speaking English]
When you sit down,

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if your leg appears...

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-You can take your-- I'll show you.
-Scarf. Yeah.

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[man 3] And put it on your--

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[Anna] Yeah, but it's, you know--

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Inside the home,
people would know that we're not Syrian

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because we don't speak the language.

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[man 3 speaking Arabic]
But still, if they see her bare leg,

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they'll get distracted.

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[man 1]
They'll forget their testimony!

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[man 2] Sexy.

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[men laughing]

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[man 4] You shouldn't be looking!

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-[speaking English] Acceptable?
-[laughing]

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[Anna] I mean, this way doesn't open
at all, right?

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[man speaking Arabic]

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[speaking English]
[Government] tanks came from this side.

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They surrounded this place.

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There were civilians.

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They killed them inside
and then they burned them.

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[indistinct talking]

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They killed them here.

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They put them like this?

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-Kneeled down like this, okay?
-[Anna] Yeah.

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Then they killed them like this.

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[Anna] Nothing compares
to being on the ground...

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in the level of investigation
that you can conduct.

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How many were they? Was it a big group?

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[man speaking Arabic]

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[Anna speaking English]
We almost never use

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just one interview to make a case.

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Because people sometimes exaggerate.
Sometimes they are just not truthful.

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So we interview several different people
about the same crimes.

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Do you remember what date it was
when Sarmin was attacked?

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[Anna] War is hell, always.
War is always bad.

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This is not our role
to make this insightful statement.

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Our role is to show what exactly happened
in this particular village.

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And why we think
this is a violation of international law.

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[gunfire]

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[protestors shouting indistinctly]

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[chanting in Arabic]

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[Mahmoud speaking English]
Do you want to go inside?

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[protestors shouting in Arabic]
His blood shall be avenged!

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His blood shall be avenged!

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[Anna] Mahmoud?

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[Mahmoud speaking English]
So they killed him...

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but after they killed him,
they burned the body.

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[man speaking Arabic]
The army makes a hobby of this.

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If they catch you while you are alive,

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they will torture you and kill you slowly.

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[Anna speaking English]
I'm not going to bring any...

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[Ole] No?

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[Anna] I don't think I'm pregnant yet.

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[Ole] When are your...

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[Anna] Um, tomorrow.

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But you know, with my cycle,
it can be another week.

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[children speaking indistinctly]

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[Anna] So first of all,
if you can just say that my name is Anna.

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And I'm from
an international organization.

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We are not journalists.

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We are trying not just to report things,
but to make some change.

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And we are extremely sorry
about what happened.

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But also that we understand

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that it is very difficult for her
to tell the story yet again,

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but we are very grateful.

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And we think it is extremely important
for the world to know about

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what's going on here.
And that's why we came.

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[translator speaking Arabic]
They are very sorry for what happened.

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But it's necessary
that they ask you questions

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so they can document what happened.

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[woman]
God willing. It will be a blessing.

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I...

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I am a mother of three children.

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My eldest was sleeping right there.

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It was around 6:30 a.m.
when Assad's men came.

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[translator]
Were the men wearing military uniforms?

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[woman] Yes, they were.

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My son said, "There is nothing here, sir."

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The officer replied, "Shut up!"

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And the soldiers started hitting him
with the rifle.

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They hit him and he fell to the ground.

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Then they took him outside.

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So I went outside,

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and I found all my children on the ground.

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Two were executed.

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Bilal had been shot right here

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and his body was burned.

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Yousef was also executed
and his body burned.

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[speaking English] Was anybody
in the family a fighter or an activist?

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Why did they target your family?

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[translator speaking Arabic]
Is there any specific reason

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why they came after your sons?

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I don't know.

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[translator]
Were your sons armed?

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No, they were not armed.

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[translator speaking English]
Is it enough for you?

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We didn't say anything all this time.
But now it is enough.

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[speaking Arabic]
What's the point of writing?

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What's the point of talking?

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[all clamoring]

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I swear, if we could save them,

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our tears would fill gallons.

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Our tears could fill gallons
and form a river.

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I swear, for our people that are dying,

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for our women, for our kids,
for our children.

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The things they are doing to us!

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[translator speaking English]
Our tears can go as a river.

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[man] Or I will, you can go.

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[man 2] You can't reverse the dead.
[Anna] Right.

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[man speaking Arabic]
Here is the mass grave.

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[indistinct talking]

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[sobbing softly]

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[Anna speaking English]
Oh, anyway, what do we have in Syria?

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Basically, it's kind of, you know...

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it's completely endless,

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and today Assad said that only
a military intervention could topple him.

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Which I think was
a very inviting statement.

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So the question is,
who will take him up on this offer?

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Yeah, all right, well,
please take care of yourself.

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-Okay.
-All right, bye.

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[typing]

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[speaking German]

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Okay.

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[Fred speaking English]
Assad, unfortunately,

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this guy is gonna hold on for a while.

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He's strong and he has real support.

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I think it's gonna go for a while.
It's gonna go for a while.

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It's gonna be nasty for a while
is my prediction.

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It seems hopeless today.

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But whether those characters
are going to have their day in court...

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I mean, like, it could happen, you know?
You never know how it can play out.

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How do you keep going back
and keep talking to--

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Hearing these horrible stories
and writing your reports,

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unless you feel like
there's a hope at some point

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that it will come to some accountability.

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Even if we don't see it
as a realistic option now,

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I've had that feeling before.

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[newswoman] As tens of thousands
of ethnic Albanians

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flee Kosovo
and into neighboring countries,

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many of them are telling
about forced evictions

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and possible human rights violations.

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Joining us to discuss
some of the atrocities

23:29.074 --> 23:31.084
the refugees claim they have endured

23:31.159 --> 23:32.829
is Fred Abrahams of
the Human Rights Watch.

23:32.911 --> 23:34.001
He joins us here in New York.

23:34.079 --> 23:35.209
-Good morning to you.
-Good morning.

23:35.288 --> 23:38.118
What are you able to
confirm from your monitors?

23:38.208 --> 23:39.748
We have researchers on the ground

23:39.835 --> 23:42.245
who are getting terrible,
terrible stories.

23:42.337 --> 23:44.087
I can only call this ethnic cleansing.

23:44.172 --> 23:47.592
Police of the Serbian government
have gone from house to house,

23:47.676 --> 23:49.716
forcing refugees
out of their homes at gunpoint.

23:49.803 --> 23:51.513
Uh, reports of killings--

23:51.597 --> 23:54.637
We're trying to confirm this.
We have confirmed some.

23:54.725 --> 23:55.725
And many others,

23:55.809 --> 23:58.439
we're still trying to get
the full information.

24:01.982 --> 24:05.192
In September of '98,

24:05.276 --> 24:08.856
things were spiraling out of control
and we wanted to help.

24:09.531 --> 24:12.781
I went to Kosovo and I went out one night

24:12.868 --> 24:14.538
and my friend told me,

24:14.620 --> 24:18.830
"Something happened
in the village of Gornje Obrinje.

24:18.915 --> 24:23.585
Don't know what exactly, but it's bad,
and you have to check it out."

24:25.797 --> 24:29.007
I remember thinking,
"Well, I'll tell journalists."

24:29.092 --> 24:32.552
Because everyone was in town.
All the major media.

24:32.638 --> 24:36.888
And he said,
"No, you should go. You need to go."

24:41.479 --> 24:44.109
So we got in the car
and we went to Gornje Obrinje...

24:44.900 --> 24:48.360
and there were villages still on fire.

24:51.698 --> 24:54.158
We were seeing refugees coming out.

24:55.451 --> 24:56.581
[indistinct]

24:56.662 --> 24:58.832
So, it was very fresh.

25:00.248 --> 25:03.998
And we got to the village
and there were...

25:04.085 --> 25:07.455
Ten bodies were in this gully.

25:07.548 --> 25:10.628
And it was, like,
five women and four kids.

25:17.808 --> 25:22.648
We went to work right away.
Got all the names and took pictures.

25:22.729 --> 25:24.519
Okay, how many bodies
do you think you saw?

25:24.606 --> 25:26.106
Did you see them being shot?

25:26.191 --> 25:30.611
Did you recognize
any of the policemen or military?

25:31.529 --> 25:34.119
[Fred] The idea of Human Rights Work
in the past

25:34.199 --> 25:35.989
was to collect all this information

25:36.076 --> 25:39.286
over a two-week,
three-week, one-month trip,

25:39.370 --> 25:42.000
bring it back to New York
and produce a report.

25:42.082 --> 25:47.922
But we had all this fresh
breaking news material about a killing,

25:48.004 --> 25:51.634
and I said, "We have to write this now."

25:52.718 --> 25:56.138
So we wrote this press release
and it got right out there.

25:57.513 --> 26:00.433
There was a piece for The New York Times
that was front page.

26:00.516 --> 26:03.516
And it was one of the women in the gully

26:03.604 --> 26:07.274
on the front page, above the fold,
on The New York Times.

26:08.149 --> 26:11.529
Richard Holbrooke,
who was the main mediator,

26:11.612 --> 26:13.662
U.S. negotiator at the time,

26:13.739 --> 26:17.369
wrote that that New York Times
was plopped down

26:17.450 --> 26:20.000
on the table of the Situation Room
in the White House

26:20.078 --> 26:22.868
and changed the tenor of the debate,

26:22.956 --> 26:26.626
because a massacre had taken place
and been documented.

26:26.710 --> 26:31.380
He presents it as
we were morally driven to respond.

26:31.464 --> 26:34.594
My take is there's political pressure
to respond.

26:34.676 --> 26:37.676
What is the U.S. doing
in the face of this violence?

26:37.763 --> 26:38.973
But in any case,

26:39.055 --> 26:43.015
it did ratchet up
the international tension.

26:43.101 --> 26:45.981
Tonight I want to speak with you
about the tragedy in Kosovo

26:46.062 --> 26:50.282
and why it matters to America
that we work with our allies to end it.

26:50.358 --> 26:52.238
[Fred] I think, for me,
that was a moment

26:52.318 --> 26:54.108
when I and everyone in New York,

26:54.195 --> 26:56.105
we realized that this had worked somehow,

26:56.197 --> 26:59.407
that it had been
an effective intervention from our side.

27:19.137 --> 27:21.967
So I guess we could each...

27:22.598 --> 27:25.388
-Check in two bags.
-The vests are with... This is two vests.

27:28.104 --> 27:31.824
[Peter laughing] He's the slowest
emergency researcher ever.

27:31.900 --> 27:35.450
The number of times
I've almost missed an airplane

27:35.528 --> 27:39.448
because Fred is buying some food
or getting a massage or...

27:43.578 --> 27:45.748
He moves at his own pace.

27:45.831 --> 27:46.831
Nice.

27:50.794 --> 27:54.214
$50 breakfast, baby.

28:34.295 --> 28:37.165
[gunfire in distance]

28:51.396 --> 28:55.436
"Human slaughterhouse
discovered in Tripoli."

28:55.525 --> 28:57.315
Jesus.

29:05.535 --> 29:07.155
[man greeting in Arabic]

29:13.126 --> 29:16.296
[speaking in English]
This is where all the charred bodies were.

29:16.379 --> 29:19.129
But there's bullets between them. See?

29:20.425 --> 29:22.005
They may have thrown in some grenades.

29:22.093 --> 29:25.013
But that's not from grenades.

29:28.724 --> 29:31.524
Was he, himself, put inside this room?

29:31.602 --> 29:33.602
[translator speaking Arabic]
Were you held in that room?

29:33.688 --> 29:35.018
Yes, I was right in there.

29:35.106 --> 29:36.686
[speaking English]
Can we do an interview in private then?

29:36.774 --> 29:38.154
[Peter] Yeah, okay.

29:38.234 --> 29:40.284
Let's take a moment.

29:41.446 --> 29:42.856
Can he say how he was captured?

29:42.948 --> 29:44.118
[man speaking Arabic]
Gaddafi's officers

29:44.199 --> 29:46.949
were arresting people randomly.

29:47.035 --> 29:49.365
They stopped us and brought us here.

29:50.288 --> 29:53.958
Then soldiers came

29:54.042 --> 29:58.712
and opened fire on us.

29:59.339 --> 30:03.799
I was underneath a pile of bloody bodies,
that's how I survived.

30:03.885 --> 30:05.385
[speaking English]
This is a very serious crime

30:05.470 --> 30:07.890
that was committed against all of them.

30:09.224 --> 30:11.944
And I thank him
for giving us the testimony.

30:12.518 --> 30:13.688
[translator speaking Arabic]

30:14.980 --> 30:17.320
[woman speaking English] Just out of
curiosity, the people that you talk to,

30:17.398 --> 30:18.728
how do you verify these stories?

30:18.817 --> 30:21.687
I mean, we've been told lots of things
that haven't turned out to be true

30:21.777 --> 30:23.647
by both sides in this conflict.

30:23.738 --> 30:27.328
Well, I mean, Human Rights Watch,
that's our business.

30:27.408 --> 30:31.618
So we take very detailed testimonies
and we track down other eyewitnesses

30:31.704 --> 30:35.504
and then we cross-corroborate
the dates and the numbers.

30:35.583 --> 30:38.963
I mean, the guy I talked to,
he was actually shot in the leg

30:39.045 --> 30:41.255
while he was climbing over the wall.

30:41.339 --> 30:43.089
-Mmm-hmm.
-See, this is why I like--

30:43.174 --> 30:45.514
Are there any bullet marks
on that wall there?

30:45.593 --> 30:48.103
Yeah, yeah, and
you'll see the bullet marks inside.

30:48.179 --> 30:50.139
I'll show you.

30:50.223 --> 30:52.853
[man] 'Cause it's a very big wall
to climb over.

30:52.934 --> 30:54.944
[Peter] Yeah, well,
if people are shooting at you,

30:55.020 --> 30:57.480
you'll make it over very quickly.

30:57.563 --> 30:58.943
I promise.

31:00.441 --> 31:02.781
Human Rights Watch
says it has strong evidence

31:02.860 --> 31:06.610
suggesting government forces
went on a spate of arbitrary killing

31:06.697 --> 31:07.947
as Tripoli was falling.

31:08.699 --> 31:10.579
[newswoman]
We got a dark glimpse today

31:10.660 --> 31:12.250
into some murderous moments

31:12.328 --> 31:15.918
as Gaddafi forces fled
and punished their prisoners.

31:21.712 --> 31:23.172
[Peter] Back in Kosovo,

31:23.256 --> 31:26.836
seeing the massacres
and the villages being burned,

31:26.927 --> 31:29.797
that's really when we started
the emergency program.

31:32.432 --> 31:34.602
With our emergency approach,

31:34.684 --> 31:40.274
we changed the game of human rights
and we made it a lot more relevant.

31:40.356 --> 31:43.936
I mean, I think we're closer to
criminal investigators

31:44.027 --> 31:46.947
who investigate international crimes.

31:47.030 --> 31:48.570
So, we dig a lot deeper.

31:54.579 --> 31:56.159
[gunfire in distance]

31:56.247 --> 31:57.667
[Fred] A quarter after 2:00.

31:57.748 --> 32:00.208
[Sidney Kwiram] The electricity's gonna
come on at 4:00 a.m. I swear to you.

32:00.293 --> 32:02.173
Do we need to charge?
I mean, how much have you got?

32:02.253 --> 32:03.843
Yeah, I'm at 32.

32:04.630 --> 32:06.470
-[Sidney] This is one of the guys outside.
-Oh, God.

32:08.051 --> 32:09.891
See, go back.

32:13.431 --> 32:15.391
[Fred] Forty-five people, at least,
lost their lives.

32:15.475 --> 32:17.555
And we're trying to piece it together.

32:17.643 --> 32:19.563
So it matters to them,

32:19.645 --> 32:24.525
it matters to any judicial process,
if it comes to that,

32:24.609 --> 32:26.689
it matters for the story
that we get it right.

32:26.777 --> 32:29.857
And I don't want to mess it up.

32:29.947 --> 32:31.317
[utensils scraping]

32:32.408 --> 32:35.828
Okay. If you motherfuckers
can eat all this pasta,

32:35.911 --> 32:37.751
I'll be impressed.

32:38.414 --> 32:39.544
[Fred] Bon appétit.

32:41.501 --> 32:43.841
[Peter] What do we focus on?
Like Fred--

32:43.919 --> 32:45.259
-[Sidney] I've got an agenda here.
-Okay.

32:45.338 --> 32:46.548
The big story right now is the executions.

32:46.631 --> 32:49.381
-There's still more to document.
-Yes. Okay.

32:49.467 --> 32:53.717
We've got a survivor for tomorrow morning
at 10:30 who wants to go out to the site.

32:53.804 --> 32:55.224
[muezzin calling to prayer]

32:59.185 --> 33:03.015
[Peter] The ones who were executed,
where did they find them?

33:03.106 --> 33:05.106
This is where
they found the prisoner bodies?

33:09.279 --> 33:12.279
Did he come to this room
and see the bodies?

33:12.365 --> 33:13.865
[man speaking Arabic]
Yes, here.

33:13.949 --> 33:16.579
[Peter speaking English] There's
military clothes all over these rooms.

33:16.661 --> 33:20.121
So I just want to see if we can
find some ID cards or something.

33:20.831 --> 33:22.291
[men clamoring]

33:23.376 --> 33:26.876
Hey, guys, I found what we're looking for.

33:34.470 --> 33:37.060
[woman speaking English]
These are the officers.

33:37.140 --> 33:38.930
[man 1] And their names, actually.

33:39.016 --> 33:41.266
Good. [chuckles]

33:41.352 --> 33:42.482
[man 2] Bingo!

33:44.189 --> 33:47.279
These are great. These are fucking gold.

33:48.693 --> 33:50.283
Fred and I did the same in Kosovo.

33:50.361 --> 33:54.281
And it became one of the big
cases at the Yugoslav tribunal

33:54.365 --> 33:58.575
So it may seem time consuming and silly,

33:58.661 --> 34:02.211
but that's how you catch these guys.

34:30.735 --> 34:32.565
Yes, this is Anna and Ole joining.

34:32.653 --> 34:39.293
[woman over phone] We've got Paris,
London, Berlin on the line.

34:39.369 --> 34:41.499
and a bunch of friends in New York.

34:41.579 --> 34:42.999
From the top, Anna and Ole,

34:43.081 --> 34:46.751
can you give us your
short pitch to journalists?

34:46.834 --> 34:49.804
[Anna] The pitch to journalists
is going to be that,

34:49.879 --> 34:52.089
basically, Human Rights Watch
has been documenting

34:52.173 --> 34:53.763
the crimes committed by the Syrian regime

34:53.841 --> 34:56.221
since the beginning of the
anti-government protests.

34:56.302 --> 34:58.352
We concluded that these
are crimes against humanity.

34:58.429 --> 35:00.969
[woman] And press conference anywhere?

35:01.056 --> 35:04.056
In Moscow, because Russia
is still the country that, you know,

35:04.144 --> 35:06.024
A, vetoes the action on Security Council,

35:06.104 --> 35:10.284
and B, continues very active
military support to the Syrian regime.

35:10.358 --> 35:11.978
[man over phone] Okay, brilliant.

35:12.067 --> 35:13.607
[woman] Anna and Ole,
I'd like to propose that

35:13.694 --> 35:17.204
you join the Comms meeting next Tuesday.

35:17.282 --> 35:20.872
That will probably be me.
I think Anya's on her way to Russia.

35:20.951 --> 35:22.041
-[woman] Okay.
-All right.

35:22.120 --> 35:23.700
[man] Fantastic. Thank you.

35:23.788 --> 35:27.458
The human slaughter in Syria
continues even tonight

35:27.542 --> 35:32.302
as Russia stalls a possible United Nations
resolution against that bloodshed.

35:32.380 --> 35:34.090
There are reports this morning

35:34.174 --> 35:38.094
that Russia has delivered advanced
anti-ship missiles to Syria.

35:38.886 --> 35:40.556
[newswoman]
With Russian President Vladimir Putin's

35:40.638 --> 35:42.428
support of the Assad regime,

35:42.515 --> 35:45.185
the death toll in Syria continues to rise.

36:00.325 --> 36:01.655
[Anna] Russia's definitely
one of our key targets.

36:01.742 --> 36:04.372
That's why we decided to do
this press conference in Moscow.

36:04.454 --> 36:07.424
Because Russia remains
one of the very few states

36:07.498 --> 36:10.748
that still supports
the Syrian regime. Um...

36:10.835 --> 36:13.875
And they're not going to like it.

36:17.049 --> 36:18.379
[speaking Russian]
I'm here for

36:18.468 --> 36:20.388
the Human Rights Watch press conference.

36:21.471 --> 36:24.891
Could I get coffee, please?

36:27.768 --> 36:29.058
[woman]
We don't want to compete with

36:29.144 --> 36:30.984
Putin's press conference today.

36:31.063 --> 36:32.483
[man] So now we have a competitor.

36:32.565 --> 36:34.645
[woman] Yes, there's a competitor...

36:34.734 --> 36:36.534
but we'll see who wins.

36:36.611 --> 36:37.901
[woman speaking English]
They need a mirror here.

36:37.987 --> 36:40.237
-[Anna] I know.
-[woman] Just one thing that they need.

36:40.323 --> 36:43.533
[Anna] It's part of why
this world is such a male place.

36:44.702 --> 36:45.752
[cameraman] Why is that?

36:45.828 --> 36:48.288
Because there is no mirror in the room

36:48.373 --> 36:51.003
where you're supposed
to get ready for the press conference.

36:52.835 --> 36:56.335
[Anna speaking Russian]
Since protests broke out in Syria,

36:56.422 --> 37:00.842
we at Human Rights Watch have been
on the ground monitoring the conflict.

37:00.926 --> 37:06.176
We've documented the mass killings of
protesters, torture, illegal arrests,

37:06.266 --> 37:12.146
and executions by the government.

37:12.230 --> 37:16.690
As of today, we have strong evidence

37:16.776 --> 37:21.356
asserting that these crimes
are crimes against humanity.

37:23.866 --> 37:27.696
I'm from the Writer's Union of Russia,

37:27.787 --> 37:30.747
but born in Iraq.

37:32.124 --> 37:37.594
The kind of sham "democracy"
that America gave to Iraq

37:37.672 --> 37:41.472
is the same they want for Syria.

37:42.259 --> 37:45.429
Two million killed,
seven million refugees...

37:45.513 --> 37:48.393
now there's a good democracy for you.

37:48.474 --> 37:50.184
This is a conspiracy

37:50.268 --> 37:53.098
and I think that your work is
part of this conspiracy.

37:54.021 --> 37:55.611
Your report is absolutely

37:55.690 --> 37:58.820
biased and paid for.

37:58.901 --> 38:01.531
So now answer my question.

38:01.612 --> 38:06.332
Who entitled you to ignore
the opinion of the legitimate government?

38:06.409 --> 38:08.699
You know, I'll give you a simple answer.

38:08.786 --> 38:11.496
If indeed our report is groundless,

38:11.581 --> 38:18.551
then the Syrian government has to prove
this by admitting international observers.

38:18.629 --> 38:19.629
Observers infringe upon

38:19.714 --> 38:21.344
the sovereignty of the country!

38:21.424 --> 38:22.474
Observers infringe upon

38:22.550 --> 38:24.010
the sovereignty of the country?

38:24.093 --> 38:26.803
Well, then, I'm afraid
our ways are not yours.

38:32.685 --> 38:34.135
[lighter clicking]

38:35.521 --> 38:36.901
[man] A big thank you to you.

38:36.981 --> 38:39.731
You are welcome.

38:39.817 --> 38:45.367
We are glad that we can speak the truth
once in a while...

38:45.448 --> 38:48.578
though not everybody wants to hear it.

38:48.659 --> 38:50.949
Well done.

38:51.036 --> 38:57.166
We Syrians have a very difficult situation
here in Russia.

38:58.252 --> 39:01.342
We have lived here for a long time.

39:01.422 --> 39:07.052
We've been married to Russians,
had children with them and grandkids, too.

39:07.136 --> 39:11.596
But we perfectly
understand the situation in Syria.

39:11.682 --> 39:15.312
Our kids visit Syria and love Syria.

39:15.395 --> 39:18.515
But the regime there is bloody,
it's a criminal regime.

39:18.606 --> 39:20.686
God willing this won't last for long.

39:20.775 --> 39:23.855
Exactly. Thank you.

39:24.862 --> 39:26.862
Thank you.

39:32.620 --> 39:34.620
[man speaking English]
What was it like for you growing up here?

39:34.705 --> 39:36.825
[Anna] I went to a very Soviet school,

39:36.916 --> 39:40.626
just as Perestroika
was in its very beginning.

39:40.711 --> 39:44.301
And as things started appearing
on TV and the newspapers,

39:44.382 --> 39:46.972
we were all very, very politically active

39:47.051 --> 39:52.221
and aware of what's happening around us.

39:52.306 --> 39:55.726
So I remember when I was, whatever...

39:56.811 --> 39:59.731
Definitely younger than Danya is now.
So maybe 10.

39:59.814 --> 40:04.614
Um, I decided to convince my entire class

40:04.694 --> 40:09.034
to quit the Young Pioneers organization.

40:09.114 --> 40:11.164
Because I was like,
"We're wearing these red scarves.

40:11.241 --> 40:15.911
We don't believe in it.
We don't support it in any way.

40:15.996 --> 40:17.826
Why this formality?"

40:17.915 --> 40:22.165
So that was a huge scandal.
I almost got kicked out of school.

40:26.841 --> 40:30.721
For this report specifically,
we spoke to more than 60...

40:30.803 --> 40:33.683
63 to be exact,
military defectors.

40:33.764 --> 40:34.974
[continues talking indistinctly]

40:39.394 --> 40:40.484
Hi.

40:41.105 --> 40:42.605
[Anna] I am tired.

40:45.610 --> 40:47.610
[speaking Russian]
Will you have some soup?

40:48.779 --> 40:53.079
I have some really good juice.

40:53.158 --> 40:56.578
Here's tomato juice.

40:57.955 --> 41:02.625
So you'll be the movie star
and we'll be background extras, right?

41:02.710 --> 41:03.710
[laughs]

41:03.794 --> 41:05.674
[Anna] Is it a problem for you?

41:05.755 --> 41:12.255
No, no!
I'm sure I won't make the final cut.

41:13.345 --> 41:16.845
Now would be the perfect time to mention

41:17.683 --> 41:21.943
that Mom and I just quit smoking
after 55 years!

41:22.021 --> 41:23.481
[Anna] When did you quit?

41:23.564 --> 41:25.484
I quit after a heart attack.

41:26.776 --> 41:29.896
[father] And I quit after Mom.

41:29.987 --> 41:33.067
Anna, you'll quit when the time comes.

41:33.157 --> 41:35.827
[speaking English] The time will come,
[laughs] and I'll quit.

41:36.952 --> 41:40.412
[cameraman] But if she gives
you another grandson or granddaughter,

41:40.498 --> 41:41.748
maybe she'll quit.

41:41.832 --> 41:44.002
[Anna speaking Russian]
Yeah, I'll quit when

41:44.084 --> 41:46.634
I give you another grandchild.

41:46.712 --> 41:48.132
Mmm-mmm.

41:48.213 --> 41:53.393
You'll quit and make me babysit again!

41:53.468 --> 41:56.008
[mother]
Oh, come on, like anyone can rely on you!

41:56.096 --> 41:58.766
Why not? I'm reliable!

41:58.849 --> 42:01.389
Though, maybe...maybe you're right.

42:01.476 --> 42:02.766
[both laughing]

42:02.853 --> 42:03.983
[phone ringing]

42:04.063 --> 42:05.943
That's them.

42:07.441 --> 42:09.031
[father] Is that for her?

42:09.109 --> 42:11.199
She always has to work!

42:12.362 --> 42:14.362
[speaking English] Yep.
That sounds fine.

42:17.827 --> 42:22.407
[speaking Russian]
She gets a phone call and that's it.

42:23.666 --> 42:25.786
Did you come here to talk on the phone?

42:25.876 --> 42:30.376
Just a few more minutes
before the interview.

42:32.049 --> 42:33.799
So what do we do? Keep waiting?

42:33.884 --> 42:36.104
Let's go to the living room.

42:38.305 --> 42:40.925
Fine, let's go to the living room.

42:41.016 --> 42:42.386
[father clears throat]

42:53.738 --> 42:56.118
[speaking English] First of all, I have
to say that they confirmed information

42:56.198 --> 42:57.658
that Human Rights Watch... [clears throat]
Excuse me.

42:57.742 --> 43:00.162
...has been collecting for months now,

43:00.244 --> 43:03.544
speaking to hundreds and
hundreds of victims and witnesses

43:03.623 --> 43:04.713
in neighboring countries.

43:04.790 --> 43:11.050
Namely large-scale, widespread abuses,
killings, torture, arbitrary detentions,

43:11.130 --> 43:13.670
uh, denial of medical assistance.

43:13.758 --> 43:17.718
We were able to corroborate
our information through those interviews.

43:26.228 --> 43:28.438
[newswoman]
Human Rights Watch has put out a report

43:28.522 --> 43:32.192
pointing the finger at the Syrian
government's crackdown on dissent.

43:32.276 --> 43:35.906
The report said the abuses
constitute crimes against humanity

43:35.988 --> 43:42.238
and demands the UN Security Council refer
Syria to the International Criminal Court.

43:42.327 --> 43:44.657
The Human Rights Watch report
is significant.

43:44.747 --> 43:47.247
It puts a face on the men behind the guns.

43:47.332 --> 43:52.212
And this report directly challenges
assertions made, once again,

43:52.296 --> 43:56.466
by the Syrian president Bashar al-Assad
in an interview just last week.

43:56.550 --> 43:59.140
Did you give the order for the crackdown?

43:59.219 --> 44:02.389
There was no command to kill
or to be brutal.

44:02.472 --> 44:06.732
People went from houses to houses,
children were arrested.

44:06.811 --> 44:08.061
-Where?
-I saw those pictures.

44:08.145 --> 44:11.395
Yeah, but how
did you verify those pictures?

44:11.481 --> 44:12.691
Yeah, so it's...

44:12.775 --> 44:13.815
That's why we are talking about

44:13.901 --> 44:16.241
false allegations
and distortion of reality.

44:17.196 --> 44:20.616
[speaking Russian]
Look, we talked to hundreds of witnesses,

44:20.700 --> 44:22.450
eyewitnesses from every side.

44:22.534 --> 44:27.754
That's how we can say what is going on
in a truthful and objective way.

44:27.832 --> 44:29.582
[speaking English]
Now we were able to answer

44:29.667 --> 44:31.707
probably the most important question,

44:31.794 --> 44:33.254
who is behind these crimes?

44:33.337 --> 44:34.457
Who ordered these crimes?

44:34.546 --> 44:37.336
-Thank you very much for listening.
-Thank you.

44:37.424 --> 44:39.224
-Have a great evening.
-You, too.

45:02.241 --> 45:03.871
[birds chirping]

45:14.086 --> 45:19.416
[Peter] I grew up on a farm,
and I always wanted to be back on a farm

45:19.508 --> 45:23.678
and planting trees and vegetables,
and looking after animals.

45:23.763 --> 45:25.563
[clucking]

45:25.639 --> 45:31.059
It's a completely different life
from the life I live out on the road,

45:31.145 --> 45:34.225
like the horrible things
that we come across.

45:40.320 --> 45:42.780
Why do we end up
becoming a human rights activist?

45:42.865 --> 45:46.365
It's not like, you know,
some light went off

45:46.451 --> 45:49.291
or that's what I wanted to do
since I was a little boy.

45:49.371 --> 45:51.581
It's just something I do.

45:55.377 --> 45:58.127
It's about fighting back
against bad people,

45:58.213 --> 46:02.683
and that, in itself, gives you a rush.

46:02.759 --> 46:08.139
It's nice to be on the right side,
and it's nice to fight back.

46:08.223 --> 46:13.273
There is a certain level of satisfaction
with fucking with bad people.

46:13.353 --> 46:15.563
It's Gaddafi.

46:15.647 --> 46:17.227
Gaddafi!

46:17.316 --> 46:18.976
Gaddafi.

46:22.362 --> 46:26.912
[boy 1] What happens if Gaddafi steals
the toys from the people...

46:26.992 --> 46:29.372
[Peter]
What will happen if Gaddafi steals what?

46:30.329 --> 46:34.959
The children's toys
and someone else brings it back.

46:35.042 --> 46:38.802
Then the people will be happy
if they get their toys back.

46:38.879 --> 46:41.049
Did Gaddafi steal the toys?

46:42.799 --> 46:44.679
From the kids in Libya...

46:44.759 --> 46:46.969
From the kids in Libya? All right.

46:48.263 --> 46:50.933
That's a bad guy, stealing toys.

47:22.464 --> 47:26.804
[newsman] The announcement came,
national liberation, freedom.

47:34.351 --> 47:37.481
[Peter]
Yes, Gaddafi is reportedly killed.

47:37.562 --> 47:40.442
Abu Bakr Yunis has been killed,

47:40.524 --> 47:43.864
so, like, a whole bunch of
leadership people have been captured.

47:43.944 --> 47:45.744
-[indistinct shouting]
-[gunfire]

47:47.781 --> 47:49.071
[laughing]

47:50.409 --> 47:55.709
We were victims, and now our enemy
becomes the victims after a while.

47:55.789 --> 47:58.079
-Yes. But, you know...
-[nearby explosions]

47:58.167 --> 47:59.667
This is what happened in Iraq.

47:59.751 --> 48:00.751
Always, yeah.

48:00.835 --> 48:02.545
If there's winners and losers,

48:02.629 --> 48:05.669
then the losers,
they will start fighting again.

48:05.757 --> 48:09.137
But you, you work for everybody.
Once on this side...

48:09.219 --> 48:12.059
We don't want people to be angry
and say, "We lost this war."

48:12.139 --> 48:13.639
Everybody has to be winners.

48:13.723 --> 48:17.693
I know there's always problems,
but I'm sure this Libya

48:17.769 --> 48:19.559
will be better than the Libya before.

48:19.646 --> 48:21.436
[men speaking Arabic]

48:26.070 --> 48:28.660
[Peter speaking English]
In Libya, with the rebels,

48:28.738 --> 48:33.038
we had a lot of credibility from day one
because we were there from day one.

48:33.118 --> 48:37.828
So we were able not just to
document the crimes of the Gaddafi regime,

48:37.914 --> 48:40.294
but also the abuses
committed by the rebels

48:40.375 --> 48:42.835
and to try to get them to stop them.

48:42.919 --> 48:45.919
[man]
The rebels just put this one on fire now.

48:46.923 --> 48:49.633
[Peter] We passed by here
less than 10 minutes ago,

48:49.718 --> 48:54.758
and we saw a rebel vehicle
pull away from this house.

48:54.848 --> 48:57.268
Now when we return, it's on fire.

49:03.065 --> 49:05.435
See where they put the fuel on the floor?

49:06.443 --> 49:08.363
[gunfire in distance]

49:11.823 --> 49:13.873
These guys are not happy we're here, man.

49:13.950 --> 49:16.540
I mean, they're here.
We have to be very careful because,

49:16.620 --> 49:20.420
I mean, they're armed
and they've set five, six houses on fire.

49:20.499 --> 49:23.419
This one and a bunch more
just on the other side.

49:23.502 --> 49:25.552
[overlapping conversations]

49:27.047 --> 49:28.547
I mean, it's wrong.
It's wrong. It's wrong.

49:28.632 --> 49:29.632
No, it's not.

49:29.716 --> 49:32.466
Those guilty of crimes, we agree,
they should be prosecuted.

49:32.552 --> 49:34.472
But they should be
prosecuted in the court,

49:34.554 --> 49:36.564
not by burning down their homes.

49:36.640 --> 49:39.270
The war is finished
and you make peace with your enemy,

49:39.351 --> 49:41.561
not with your friends, you know?

49:41.645 --> 49:42.725
[speaking Arabic]

49:45.565 --> 49:47.645
[muezzin calling to prayer]

50:03.583 --> 50:05.753
I should have brought
my fishing pole, man.

50:07.337 --> 50:09.877
There's some serious fish out there.

50:09.964 --> 50:11.474
[horns honking]

50:17.847 --> 50:20.807
[Peter] Do you know
where the weapon bunkers are here?

50:20.892 --> 50:23.352
-You can follow us.
-[Peter] Okay. Assalam-alaikum.

50:23.437 --> 50:27.857
Here. These were all Belgian
and Korean machine guns.

50:27.941 --> 50:30.821
I got the shipping... Look.

50:32.904 --> 50:35.204
These are the shipping documents.

50:35.865 --> 50:36.865
[chuckles]

50:37.701 --> 50:39.701
I love this.

50:39.786 --> 50:42.156
"Less lethal launcher." [laughs]

50:46.626 --> 50:49.376
Every single one, looted.

50:52.299 --> 50:56.219
Peter's the bang-bang guy.
He likes the bullets and bombs.

50:58.012 --> 51:00.182
I'm more interested in the people.

51:00.265 --> 51:01.925
It fits his personality.

51:02.016 --> 51:04.976
He likes the big bang...

51:05.061 --> 51:08.771
and you know,
I've got a superficial knowledge of that,

51:08.857 --> 51:12.687
but Peter knows his bullets and bombs

51:12.777 --> 51:14.487
enough to identify the major stuff

51:14.571 --> 51:17.571
and then refer to experts
if it's something very technical.

51:17.657 --> 51:20.657
But, you know,
for a human rights researcher,

51:20.744 --> 51:24.374
he knows it probably better than anyone.

51:25.374 --> 51:27.254
[gunfire in distance]

51:32.464 --> 51:36.304
And that's what al-Qaeda
would love to get their hands on.

51:36.385 --> 51:39.385
These are heat-seeking
surface-to-air missiles.

51:39.471 --> 51:40.561
[camera clicking]

51:40.639 --> 51:44.599
That weapon right there is
what's freaking out the State Department

51:44.684 --> 51:49.024
and why I've been getting calls from
intelligence agencies around the world.

51:49.105 --> 51:50.225
That one, right there.

51:51.065 --> 51:52.775
[men talking indistinctly]

51:52.859 --> 51:55.899
These can shoot down airplanes.
They are only for shooting down airplanes.

51:55.987 --> 51:57.987
The command center
is collecting all of them

51:58.072 --> 51:59.912
because they are going to destroy them.

52:01.660 --> 52:02.740
[camera clicking]

52:04.454 --> 52:07.424
[Peter] Tracking these weapons,
it's really, really important.

52:07.499 --> 52:09.459
Um, it allows us to assess

52:09.543 --> 52:13.053
just how many of these weapons
are floating around.

52:13.129 --> 52:17.129
They really pose a significant danger
to the civilian population

52:17.217 --> 52:22.307
because that's what bad guys use
to build car bombs and suicide bombs

52:22.389 --> 52:25.639
that have wreaked such havoc
in Iraq and Afghanistan.

52:26.976 --> 52:29.476
We don't want
the same situation to develop here.

52:31.064 --> 52:36.404
This shipment alone is double what
the CIA gave to the Afghan mujahideen...

52:38.322 --> 52:39.992
during the war in Afghanistan.

52:40.073 --> 52:41.703
Just this shipment.

52:45.245 --> 52:46.495
[laughs]

52:47.831 --> 52:49.331
Do you think they're secure?

53:14.148 --> 53:15.318
[explosion]

53:16.318 --> 53:17.318
[newsman 1] It is official.

53:17.402 --> 53:19.402
Syria is now in a state of civil war.

53:19.488 --> 53:20.778
[newswoman]
There are reports tonight of

53:20.864 --> 53:23.584
heavy fighting in
the Syrian capital of Damascus.

53:24.701 --> 53:26.451
[newsman 2]
The Syrian military appears to be

53:26.536 --> 53:28.956
increasing its use of helicopter gunships,

53:29.038 --> 53:31.708
both in rebel-held areas and in Damascus.

53:31.791 --> 53:32.921
[newsman 3] The Syrian Air Force

53:33.001 --> 53:36.631
has been thrown into the struggle
against the rebels without restraint.

53:42.886 --> 53:44.966
[Ole]
We are trying to document air strikes

53:45.054 --> 53:47.274
that have happened
in the last couple of days.

53:47.349 --> 53:48.769
The problem is that the planes,

53:48.850 --> 53:52.810
the air strikes happen, um,
when it's sunny...

53:53.897 --> 53:57.897
and today it is so far, pretty sunny.

54:13.458 --> 54:15.878
Are these still unexploded?

54:15.960 --> 54:17.130
[man] Yes, they are still unexploded.

54:17.211 --> 54:21.801
Okay, okay, just explain to them
that these are very dangerous.

54:21.883 --> 54:23.263
Hang on, hang on.

54:23.343 --> 54:24.973
[speaking Arabic]

54:27.263 --> 54:30.023
[speaking English] Yeah, yeah, yeah, so...
[exhales] be very, very careful.

54:30.099 --> 54:32.139
[speaking Arabic]

54:37.816 --> 54:39.146
[speaking English]
Apparently two rockets were

54:39.233 --> 54:41.613
fired into the neighborhood
where we're staying...

54:44.698 --> 54:49.868
and they landed, um, just
two streets away from here.

54:51.455 --> 54:55.995
So... I guess I'm not freaking out, but...

54:56.960 --> 54:59.630
And we knew what we were going into...

55:00.505 --> 55:03.625
but, you know, we really
have to see how it develops.

55:07.011 --> 55:08.641
[speaking Arabic]

55:17.439 --> 55:19.479
[Anna] He's going more and more
towards the military buzz.

55:19.566 --> 55:20.606
[all laugh]

55:27.866 --> 55:28.946
Okay.

55:29.033 --> 55:31.333
-[Ole] Happy anniversary.
-You, too.

55:31.411 --> 55:32.751
[Mahmoud] What's that?

55:32.829 --> 55:34.579
It's our wedding anniversary.

55:34.664 --> 55:35.924
-Who?
-Us.

55:35.999 --> 55:37.959
-Really? 10th of August?
-Yeah.

55:38.042 --> 55:39.672
[laughing]

55:39.753 --> 55:41.593
We just remembered. [laughs]

55:42.464 --> 55:44.264
-It looks good?
-Yeah.

55:45.299 --> 55:47.429
-Happy anniversary.
-Happy anniversary.

55:47.511 --> 55:48.851
[Mahmoud] In Syria, we say Na'aiman.

55:48.928 --> 55:50.388
Na'aiman.

55:50.472 --> 55:52.142
[both repeating]

55:53.850 --> 55:55.940
[engine rumbling in distance]

55:56.019 --> 56:00.479
[speaking English] Am I hallucinating or
is that an airplane that I'm hearing?

56:08.740 --> 56:12.330
So, why don't you clean out that one,
your backpack?

56:15.539 --> 56:17.499
[jet engine roaring]

56:21.545 --> 56:23.545
[man 1 speaking Arabic] Close the window!

56:23.630 --> 56:28.220
[woman] Amir, come in here!

56:30.219 --> 56:35.179
[man 2] Calm down, calm down.

56:37.143 --> 56:39.943
-[woman] What kind of plane is it?
-[man] Military plane.

56:40.980 --> 56:44.190
[man 3] The plane is gone now.

56:45.151 --> 56:48.321
[man 1] We hope so.

56:49.322 --> 56:52.702
[woman] I'm not worried about myself,
I'm worried about my kids.

56:52.784 --> 56:54.414
[man 1 speaking English]
She's afraid about her son.

56:54.494 --> 56:56.584
[Anna] Of course, no, I understand.

56:56.663 --> 57:01.713
I promise you I would be much more
terrified if my son was here.

57:01.793 --> 57:03.343
[speaking Arabic]
Are you not worried about dying

57:03.419 --> 57:05.049
in this country that is so foreign to you?

57:05.129 --> 57:07.799
[man speaking English]
Are you afraid to dead?

57:08.925 --> 57:10.005
-To be...
-[man] To be...

57:10.093 --> 57:12.683
-Are you afraid to die in...
-To die?

57:12.762 --> 57:14.932
[speaking Arabic] God forbid! God forbid!

57:15.765 --> 57:17.975
[man speaking English] Are you afraid?

57:18.059 --> 57:20.059
I'm a little bit nervous, yeah.

57:28.612 --> 57:32.032
[Ole] No, of course, you know,
of course it's... There's a risk.

57:32.115 --> 57:34.115
-It's dangerous.
-So there's only one bomb per night?

57:34.200 --> 57:35.280
No, but--

57:35.368 --> 57:37.868
Do they have bunkers of some sort?

57:37.954 --> 57:39.374
No, not bunkers.

57:39.455 --> 57:41.205
-Some have basements.
-Basements?

57:41.290 --> 57:44.130
The last day we were there,
there was an aerial attack

57:44.210 --> 57:48.300
and they dropped a bomb like 50 meters
from the house where we used to sleep.

57:48.381 --> 57:50.301
-And did anyone die?
-[Anna] Mmm-mmm.

57:50.383 --> 57:52.843
No, but a couple of kids were injured.

57:52.927 --> 57:54.757
They were playing in the street.

57:54.846 --> 57:56.676
Aw, is there?

57:56.765 --> 57:57.805
Mmm-hmm.

57:59.934 --> 58:01.524
So...

58:01.603 --> 58:03.403
[Danya] I would never
have the guts to go outside

58:03.480 --> 58:06.860
when there's bombs been dropping
for the past week.

58:09.068 --> 58:12.568
[Ole] I don't know.
No, I think most of the people there

58:12.656 --> 58:15.236
probably had the same reaction
the first time,

58:15.324 --> 58:18.544
but then, it's funny because,
you know, people get used to it,

58:18.620 --> 58:23.040
and after the 10th time
that they've heard the bombs dropping,

58:23.124 --> 58:24.924
people get used to it.

58:25.001 --> 58:27.881
And that's how people get killed as well,

58:27.962 --> 58:28.962
because they don't, you know,

58:29.047 --> 58:32.757
they stop paying attention,
they stop being afraid.

58:32.842 --> 58:35.682
I would not get used to it.

58:37.597 --> 58:39.307
You can get used to anything.

58:50.026 --> 58:52.736
[cameraman] Does he ever talk to you
about being scared?

58:52.821 --> 58:54.951
[Anna] Scared of what?
[cameraman] Scared for you guys?

58:55.031 --> 58:56.241
[Anna] Well, he did last night.

58:56.324 --> 58:58.584
[cameraman] No, but in general, does
he ever talk to you about being scared?

58:58.660 --> 59:02.250
[Anna] No, I actually don't think
he's scared, no.

59:03.998 --> 59:05.668
I mean, he's 12 years old.

59:05.750 --> 59:08.130
Do you remember yourself when you were 12?

59:08.211 --> 59:12.801
The idea that you or anybody else can die
is such an abstract.

59:13.842 --> 59:15.642
And he's not the most...

59:15.719 --> 59:20.809
As you could see,
he's very safe, he's very secure.

59:22.475 --> 59:24.635
I mean,
I guess if you ask him point blank,

59:24.728 --> 59:28.148
"Are you scared that your mother can die
in one of those situations?"

59:28.231 --> 59:29.231
He probably will say yes.

59:29.315 --> 59:31.275
But honestly speaking,

59:31.359 --> 59:34.029
I don't think it's part of, his, sort of,

59:35.488 --> 59:38.318
everyday nightmares.

59:49.252 --> 59:50.592
[inaudible]

1:00:15.737 --> 1:00:17.987
[Mohammed] Of course, my English,
most of it is from the movies.

1:00:18.072 --> 1:00:19.122
[Anna] Good, good.

1:00:19.198 --> 1:00:22.738
I memorized some Shakespearean plays,

1:00:22.827 --> 1:00:24.787
but they are not helpful
in learning English

1:00:24.871 --> 1:00:27.211
because it is not English, actually.

1:00:27.290 --> 1:00:28.710
King Lear.

1:00:30.084 --> 1:00:32.254
King Lear, I'm fond of it.

1:00:32.336 --> 1:00:34.796
It's very sad, very, very sad.

1:00:36.465 --> 1:00:37.795
Me and my wife are teachers.

1:00:37.884 --> 1:00:41.054
I am teaching in that school,
my wife teaches in this school.

1:00:41.137 --> 1:00:42.597
But now she's pregnant.

1:00:42.681 --> 1:00:45.521
That's why I have hired a teacher
to teach instead of her.

1:00:45.599 --> 1:00:47.599
When people get pregnant,

1:00:47.686 --> 1:00:50.686
women, sorry,
they like to eat some things,

1:00:50.772 --> 1:00:53.692
they have the appetite to drink something,

1:00:53.775 --> 1:00:56.065
but my wife, she likes to sleep.

1:00:56.152 --> 1:00:57.152
[laughs]

1:00:58.196 --> 1:01:01.236
It sounds very familiar.

1:01:01.324 --> 1:01:02.414
[laughs] Yes, maybe.

1:01:02.491 --> 1:01:04.331
What are you implying? [laughs]

1:01:05.745 --> 1:01:07.615
-Should I tell him?
-Yeah, you can tell him.

1:01:07.706 --> 1:01:10.416
Okay, so I'll tell you a little secret.

1:01:10.499 --> 1:01:12.339
Anya is also pregnant.

1:01:12.418 --> 1:01:15.708
-Yeah. Did you know? No.
-No. No.

1:01:15.797 --> 1:01:18.047
So everything that you say
sounds very familiar.

1:01:18.132 --> 1:01:19.262
I recognize it.

1:01:19.342 --> 1:01:21.552
How far is your wife?

1:01:21.635 --> 1:01:23.845
Forty-seven, forty-eight days.

1:01:23.930 --> 1:01:26.680
No, no, no, two months and 17 days.

1:01:26.766 --> 1:01:27.926
Two months and 17 days.

1:01:28.017 --> 1:01:29.477
-You're counting the days. [laughs]
-Yeah.

1:01:31.187 --> 1:01:34.437
-Of course. He is my baby, my first baby.
-[Anna] Yes.

1:01:40.029 --> 1:01:42.199
They just bombed Azaz,
a dozen people killed and injured.

1:01:42.281 --> 1:01:43.991
-They bombed Azaz?
-Yes.

1:01:44.075 --> 1:01:46.155
A dozen people killed and injured,
just now?

1:01:46.244 --> 1:01:47.294
Yes.

1:01:47.370 --> 1:01:50.620
Half an hour ago,
more than half an hour ago.

1:01:50.707 --> 1:01:51.747
Where in Azaz did they bomb?

1:01:51.833 --> 1:01:53.213
Don't know.

1:01:53.292 --> 1:01:55.132
We just saw the smoke.

1:01:55.211 --> 1:01:56.671
[Anna] What happened?

1:01:56.755 --> 1:01:59.585
-They bombed Azaz just half an hour ago.
-[Anna] What?

1:01:59.673 --> 1:02:01.223
[Ole] Do we go there?

1:02:06.597 --> 1:02:08.517
[man speaking Arabic]
To Azaz!

1:02:09.683 --> 1:02:11.773
[Anna speaking English]
Is it a really good idea to go there?

1:02:12.937 --> 1:02:16.607
[Ole] I mean, let's see what's there.
Maybe it's nothing.

1:02:16.690 --> 1:02:18.570
[Mohammed] I hope so.

1:02:31.039 --> 1:02:32.619
[Anna] Oh, my God.

1:02:34.042 --> 1:02:35.042
[man 1] Help! Help!

1:02:35.126 --> 1:02:36.126
[Ole] Jesus.

1:02:36.878 --> 1:02:37.878
[Anna] Come here.

1:02:39.172 --> 1:02:42.472
[Ole] Come on, come on,
come on, come on.

1:02:42.550 --> 1:02:43.930
How many houses were here?

1:02:44.010 --> 1:02:45.470
[man 2 speaking Arabic]

1:02:45.553 --> 1:02:47.393
[speaking English]
It destroyed 22 houses.

1:02:47.471 --> 1:02:50.021
[man 2 speaking Arabic]
Forty are injured and 20 killed.

1:02:51.684 --> 1:02:54.234
[man 3 in English]
He said this used to be the street...

1:02:54.312 --> 1:02:57.902
and the bomb fell on houses here.

1:02:57.982 --> 1:03:00.232
[man 2]
Here, all this area are civilian people...

1:03:00.318 --> 1:03:02.068
civilian poor people.

1:03:02.153 --> 1:03:04.573
[Anna]
Is there anybody in the hospital?

1:03:05.698 --> 1:03:08.278
I think the hospital was also hit.

1:03:08.367 --> 1:03:10.407
[indistinct conversations]

1:03:14.790 --> 1:03:16.750
[engine droning]

1:03:19.670 --> 1:03:21.380
[speaking Arabic]
We have no weapons that can stop a plane.

1:03:21.464 --> 1:03:22.474
How can we stop this?

1:03:22.548 --> 1:03:24.428
We have only God to protect us.

1:03:26.760 --> 1:03:28.970
Lay down! Lay down!

1:03:29.973 --> 1:03:31.433
Turn off that light!

1:03:31.515 --> 1:03:33.885
[Anna speaking English]
It's a car, it's a car.

1:03:33.977 --> 1:03:35.557
It's not a plane.

1:03:35.644 --> 1:03:37.444
[man] I know, but they hear the sound.

1:03:38.940 --> 1:03:40.730
We should leave.

1:03:40.817 --> 1:03:43.237
[Anna] Okay, you want to get out?
[Ole] Do we have-- I mean--

1:03:43.319 --> 1:03:45.069
[speaking Arabic]
How will we stop these planes?

1:03:45.154 --> 1:03:46.824
[Anna speaking English]
There's no phone there. I need the phone.

1:03:46.906 --> 1:03:49.906
[speaking Arabic]
We asked Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar.

1:03:49.993 --> 1:03:51.743
We don't need money from you.

1:03:51.828 --> 1:03:54.038
We need weapons to
defend ourselves from these planes.

1:03:54.122 --> 1:03:56.502
Please tell everyone this,
all over the world.

1:03:58.960 --> 1:04:00.790
[Ole speaking English]
Can you tell me what happened?

1:04:00.879 --> 1:04:04.839
[translator speaking Arabic]
Tell us exactly what happened.

1:04:04.924 --> 1:04:07.594
We saw a military plane.

1:04:07.676 --> 1:04:08.846
Military.

1:04:08.928 --> 1:04:12.558
It's meant to fight another country...

1:04:12.640 --> 1:04:15.270
not take our family.

1:04:15.351 --> 1:04:18.481
So many kids killed today.

1:04:18.562 --> 1:04:23.112
Babies. Some only a few months old.

1:04:23.943 --> 1:04:26.573
All these houses were destroyed.

1:04:26.654 --> 1:04:29.204
What were they looking for? Guns?
There are none!

1:04:30.408 --> 1:04:36.998
I lost my brother, my sister,
and my step-mother today.

1:04:37.874 --> 1:04:41.794
What is he looking for,
Assad the murderer?

1:04:41.877 --> 1:04:47.087
What is he looking for?

1:04:47.175 --> 1:04:49.465
We hope to get revenge.

1:04:49.552 --> 1:04:52.222
God should punish them.

1:04:54.140 --> 1:04:55.890
[Ole speaking English] Okay.

1:04:55.975 --> 1:04:58.555
I'm very sorry about...

1:05:07.486 --> 1:05:08.566
[Anna]
The only thing that will stop this

1:05:08.654 --> 1:05:10.244
is a No-Fly Zone.

1:05:10.323 --> 1:05:13.623
-And here you can totally implement it.
-[Ole] Yeah.

1:05:15.078 --> 1:05:17.078
[Anna] What do you think?

1:05:17.163 --> 1:05:19.583
I mean, this is really...
This is probably the biggest attack.

1:05:19.665 --> 1:05:20.915
[Ole] Yeah.

1:05:21.875 --> 1:05:24.085
[men chanting in Arabic]

1:05:43.314 --> 1:05:45.364
[speaking English]
Hi, can you hear me? Okay.

1:05:45.441 --> 1:05:47.531
We were just concerned
because we had no reception

1:05:47.610 --> 1:05:52.030
and I didn't know whether the news of
Azaz's bombing had reached you.

1:05:52.115 --> 1:05:55.235
But we need to decide
how to get this information out

1:05:55.326 --> 1:05:57.286
because it's really enormous.

1:05:57.370 --> 1:06:01.370
We have massive destruction
and massive civilian casualties.

1:06:01.457 --> 1:06:04.837
It's definitely the biggest
that happened so far in Syria,

1:06:04.918 --> 1:06:08.958
but it's also, you know,
honestly the biggest I've ever seen.

1:06:10.966 --> 1:06:13.506
Kills and injures scores.

1:06:13.594 --> 1:06:14.604
I just talked to New York.

1:06:14.678 --> 1:06:16.968
So what we'll try to do,
we will try to get out a media advisory,

1:06:17.056 --> 1:06:22.186
sort of a quick write-up of
our findings about Azaz.

1:06:22.270 --> 1:06:25.730
I don't think we'll go with
a different advocacy line right now,

1:06:25.814 --> 1:06:27.074
but I think these kinds of attacks

1:06:27.150 --> 1:06:30.530
are something that might make us
rethink our advocacy line

1:06:30.611 --> 1:06:35.451
and see whether we would
eventually call for a No-Fly Zone.

1:06:35.533 --> 1:06:38.493
Exactly, 13 members of his family

1:06:38.577 --> 1:06:41.747
and he said that 10 of them
had been children

1:06:41.830 --> 1:06:45.330
from 14 years old and younger,

1:06:45.418 --> 1:06:50.378
and one was newly born, 40 days ago.

1:06:51.549 --> 1:06:52.589
Okay, he cut off.

1:06:52.675 --> 1:06:55.085
Okay, we really need to work on this.
Why did it take so long?

1:06:55.178 --> 1:06:57.808
I don't know,
he was asking all of these questions.

1:06:57.888 --> 1:07:00.348
[Anna] We need to upload videos,
we need to do stuff.

1:07:00.433 --> 1:07:01.643
[Ole] I know. I know.

1:07:01.725 --> 1:07:04.095
[Anna] I need interviews
with the guys from you.

1:07:06.189 --> 1:07:08.769
[newswoman] The town of Azaz
suffered a heavy bombardment today.

1:07:08.857 --> 1:07:10.937
It started around 3:00 in the afternoon.

1:07:11.027 --> 1:07:14.317
Just now I am coming back from Azaz,

1:07:14.405 --> 1:07:17.115
and what we have found
is that the Syrian government

1:07:17.200 --> 1:07:20.080
has conducted both indiscriminant attacks,

1:07:20.161 --> 1:07:24.541
and in some cases,
they have deliberately targeted civilians.

1:07:24.623 --> 1:07:27.253
[newsman] Short of getting
more anti-aircraft weapons,

1:07:27.335 --> 1:07:30.295
the opposition has called on countries
like Turkey and the U.S.

1:07:30.379 --> 1:07:32.799
to impose a No-Fly Zone over Syria,

1:07:32.881 --> 1:07:35.431
but for now
U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta

1:07:35.509 --> 1:07:37.009
says that seems unlikely.

1:08:08.459 --> 1:08:10.089
[man 1 on phone]
Okay, so let's get underway.

1:08:10.169 --> 1:08:13.549
We're meeting to discuss
the issue of armed intervention.

1:08:13.631 --> 1:08:16.881
Basically, one of the reasons
that we decided to

1:08:16.967 --> 1:08:20.637
restart this conversation
on the No-Fly Zone

1:08:20.721 --> 1:08:24.601
was because we started seeing
the actual flying.

1:08:24.683 --> 1:08:29.023
We probably can see
thousands of civilian lives saved

1:08:29.104 --> 1:08:31.364
if the aerial attacks stop.

1:08:31.440 --> 1:08:34.030
So the question is,
is there anything that can stop them

1:08:34.109 --> 1:08:36.739
and if a No-Fly Zone
is one of these things.

1:08:36.820 --> 1:08:39.700
[woman 1 on phone] Can I just briefly
respond to some of those points?

1:08:39.782 --> 1:08:42.542
What you describe is not something
that is going to solve the problem

1:08:42.618 --> 1:08:44.748
of the killings of civilians
in the country

1:08:44.828 --> 1:08:49.538
because, in fact, air power
is a relatively insignificant part

1:08:49.625 --> 1:08:51.585
of the ongoing killings of civilians,

1:08:51.669 --> 1:08:55.549
and I think that many of us believe
that a No-Fly Zone

1:08:55.631 --> 1:08:59.891
will have huge, expanded, uncontrollable,
unintended consequences.

1:08:59.968 --> 1:09:01.678
[woman 2] But the question before...

1:09:01.762 --> 1:09:04.312
[overlapping conversations on phone]

1:09:05.433 --> 1:09:06.733
[man 2 on phone]
No, no, no, I'm not...

1:09:07.935 --> 1:09:08.935
Oh, my God.

1:09:09.019 --> 1:09:11.059
[automated voice] Anna has left.

1:09:16.944 --> 1:09:19.414
[Ole]
If this is the right thing to do,

1:09:19.488 --> 1:09:22.738
if this is going to
reduce killings and protect civilians,

1:09:22.825 --> 1:09:26.575
and if we believe
that actually us calling for it

1:09:26.662 --> 1:09:28.912
would make a difference
in terms of whether it happens or not,

1:09:28.997 --> 1:09:30.917
then we need to call for it.

1:09:30.999 --> 1:09:33.339
-[Danya] Mama?
-Mama, good night.

1:09:34.712 --> 1:09:36.092
Okay, a little bit of wine?

1:09:36.171 --> 1:09:38.301
[Ole] Yeah, I think that's in order.

1:09:39.132 --> 1:09:41.682
[Anna and Danya speaking Russian]

1:09:42.678 --> 1:09:43.678
[kissing]

1:09:44.555 --> 1:09:47.015
-Okay, good night.
-Good night.

1:09:55.899 --> 1:09:57.859
-[woman] Okay.
-[knocking]

1:09:57.943 --> 1:10:00.653
Okay, I think we're ready to start now.

1:10:00.738 --> 1:10:03.658
So, we only have one item on the agenda,

1:10:03.741 --> 1:10:08.791
which is the Syria report
on aerial attacks on civilians.

1:10:08.871 --> 1:10:10.871
[Carroll Bogert] I think there's been
also a lot of conversation

1:10:10.956 --> 1:10:11.956
in the organization already

1:10:12.040 --> 1:10:15.500
about what kind of recommendations
are going to be attached to this report,

1:10:15.586 --> 1:10:16.666
and you probably have heard

1:10:16.754 --> 1:10:21.304
we've had long meetings, discussions
on email and discussions in person about

1:10:21.384 --> 1:10:24.474
the question of some form of intervention,

1:10:24.553 --> 1:10:25.763
even armed intervention,

1:10:25.846 --> 1:10:29.926
which is a very serious matter
for a human rights group to consider.

1:10:30.017 --> 1:10:35.687
And at this stage,
we're not in a position to make a call

1:10:35.773 --> 1:10:39.363
to invoke our policy
on armed intervention,

1:10:39.443 --> 1:10:41.783
and it's the result of a lot of

1:10:41.862 --> 1:10:43.532
thought and discussion
inside the organization

1:10:43.614 --> 1:10:47.334
and essentially revolved around
the question of more harm than good.

1:10:47.410 --> 1:10:50.580
Would such intervention
produce more good than harm,

1:10:50.663 --> 1:10:52.583
which we are not in a position
to say at this time.

1:10:52.665 --> 1:10:54.995
So, I just want to kind of, you know,

1:10:55.083 --> 1:10:56.883
that was a big elephant in the room

1:10:56.960 --> 1:10:58.710
and I want to set that aside.

1:10:58.796 --> 1:11:01.206
[woman]
Okay, so Anya, do you want to start off

1:11:01.299 --> 1:11:03.179
by telling us what your findings are?

1:11:03.259 --> 1:11:04.929
Um, sure.

1:11:05.010 --> 1:11:11.100
First of all, this report is based on
several field missions that... [fades out]

1:11:11.183 --> 1:11:14.103
[Carroll] Some of the things
we work on are straightforward

1:11:14.186 --> 1:11:16.396
and some of them are just not,

1:11:16.480 --> 1:11:17.690
so this is a hard one.

1:11:17.773 --> 1:11:20.033
In some cases we are seeing a pattern

1:11:20.108 --> 1:11:24.738
that we believe to suggest
deliberate targeting of civilians.

1:11:25.823 --> 1:11:27.663
[Carroll]
It just eats us up every day,

1:11:27.741 --> 1:11:31.581
and I think
it really eats up Anya and Ole.

1:11:31.662 --> 1:11:33.712
Look, I've never been to Syria in my life.

1:11:33.789 --> 1:11:35.499
I haven't looked those people in the eye.

1:11:35.583 --> 1:11:39.463
These people who repose in you
the sacred trust of their story,

1:11:39.545 --> 1:11:43.045
like, they tell you about their son,
who was their son,

1:11:43.131 --> 1:11:46.471
or their 5-year-old daughter,
how did they die.

1:11:46.552 --> 1:11:49.102
They tell you these stories
and then you walk away

1:11:49.179 --> 1:11:51.719
and you carry those stories with you.

1:11:53.016 --> 1:11:57.146
As you can hear, there's like
hundreds of people dying every day.

1:11:57.229 --> 1:11:59.059
How-- What do we do, what do we do?

1:11:59.147 --> 1:12:00.897
How do we prevent that?

1:12:00.983 --> 1:12:03.573
What can we say that will stop that?

1:12:07.365 --> 1:12:12.865
[Anna] It's really... It's difficult to
compare it to anything else I've done.

1:12:13.829 --> 1:12:18.249
I wake up swearing
that I would never go to Syria again,

1:12:18.334 --> 1:12:21.924
just because I feel
that it's useless at this point,

1:12:22.004 --> 1:12:26.344
that we've done everything we could
and we weren't able to change much.

1:12:27.676 --> 1:12:29.596
It does get very frustrating.

1:12:33.932 --> 1:12:37.352
[Fred] Maybe there are times
when I think we've made a difference

1:12:37.436 --> 1:12:38.436
and we haven't,

1:12:38.521 --> 1:12:41.651
and there are times when I think we failed
and we didn't.

1:12:43.859 --> 1:12:49.029
You know, it's like you're up against
incredibly powerful forces.

1:12:49.114 --> 1:12:51.834
We talk about impact, what is impact?

1:12:51.909 --> 1:12:54.869
And then, sometimes it happens, you know?

1:12:54.953 --> 1:12:58.463
You work on a case
and someone's released from prison,

1:12:58.541 --> 1:13:04.001
or in Kosovo, Milošević ends up in court

1:13:04.087 --> 1:13:06.877
and it can make a difference.

1:13:09.217 --> 1:13:10.757
[crowd chanting]

1:13:24.692 --> 1:13:28.532
[male lawyer] This trial is about
the climb of this accused to power,

1:13:29.447 --> 1:13:32.907
power that was exercised
without accountability,

1:13:33.784 --> 1:13:38.004
responsibility, or morality.

1:13:38.080 --> 1:13:40.210
[male judge]
Yes, let the witness take the declaration.

1:13:41.542 --> 1:13:43.422
[Fred] I joined the prosecution.

1:13:43.502 --> 1:13:45.842
They wanted an expert witness

1:13:45.921 --> 1:13:50.681
who would lay out
the context of the conflict.

1:13:50.759 --> 1:13:53.349
I solemnly declare
that I will speak the truth,

1:13:53.429 --> 1:13:55.759
the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth.

1:13:55.848 --> 1:13:57.268
Yes, if you'd like to take a seat.

1:13:57.349 --> 1:13:59.599
[Fred] Three robed judges

1:13:59.685 --> 1:14:04.435
and every word you say is translated
into three or four languages.

1:14:04.523 --> 1:14:05.523
Full name, please.

1:14:05.608 --> 1:14:07.688
[Fred] Frederick Chronag Abrahams.

1:14:07.776 --> 1:14:12.066
It was completely horrifying.

1:14:13.198 --> 1:14:15.278
Deep, deep fear.

1:14:15.367 --> 1:14:19.537
You are talking to the guy
you were tracking for 10 years,

1:14:19.622 --> 1:14:21.752
who is sitting there, smirking,

1:14:21.832 --> 1:14:26.552
with this horrible, slimy arrogance.

1:14:27.963 --> 1:14:31.343
Now, do you want to
have the indictment read out?

1:14:31.424 --> 1:14:33.434
That's your problem.

1:14:33.511 --> 1:14:37.141
[Fred] He was pretending
to be the hero of the nation.

1:14:37.222 --> 1:14:38.932
[woman] Exhibit 195.

1:14:40.476 --> 1:14:43.556
[male lawyer]
That, I think, is the photograph of...

1:14:44.480 --> 1:14:46.650
[Fred]
This is one of the children in the gully.

1:14:46.732 --> 1:14:51.072
It's perhaps a bit difficult to decipher,
but it is a--

1:14:51.153 --> 1:14:52.243
[male lawyer] A child.

1:14:52.320 --> 1:14:54.240
And you photographed
or your colleague photographed this child?

1:14:54.322 --> 1:14:55.322
Yes.

1:14:56.033 --> 1:14:57.373
[Milošević speaking Serbian]

1:14:57.450 --> 1:15:00.750
[female translator]
You're saying that you will never forget

1:15:00.829 --> 1:15:03.999
your impressions from Gornje Obrinje.

1:15:04.082 --> 1:15:07.752
I can understand that,
but the question is,

1:15:07.836 --> 1:15:14.676
do you make a distinction between somebody
who was defending himself from terrorism,

1:15:14.760 --> 1:15:18.890
or is carrying out an aggression
against an independent state

1:15:18.972 --> 1:15:23.312
that is resolving its own problems
and not jeopardizing anybody else?

1:15:23.393 --> 1:15:25.403
Do you draw a distinction of that kind?

1:15:26.730 --> 1:15:29.650
Uh, let me make one thing clear.

1:15:30.609 --> 1:15:36.699
The question is not whether
you can confront an insurgency...

1:15:37.950 --> 1:15:40.790
it's how you confront that insurgency.

1:15:42.370 --> 1:15:45.500
And our evidence is overwhelming...

1:15:47.000 --> 1:15:50.920
that the forces of the Serbian police
and the Yugoslav Army

1:15:51.004 --> 1:15:55.264
specifically and purposefully
targeted civilians.

1:15:56.760 --> 1:15:59.390
[Fred]
Thank God Milošević represented himself.

1:16:00.513 --> 1:16:04.143
He went off on, like, political speeches

1:16:04.226 --> 1:16:06.436
instead of trying to
rip apart my testimony.

1:16:08.105 --> 1:16:12.225
There was a moment, I saw,
he was not digging in with questions.

1:16:13.443 --> 1:16:15.573
Then I was on fire

1:16:15.654 --> 1:16:19.494
because I felt like,
I know this, I'm solid, I believe it,

1:16:19.575 --> 1:16:21.785
and I just have to talk about it.

1:16:21.869 --> 1:16:26.209
[female translator] Isn't this article
proof that you and your organization

1:16:26.289 --> 1:16:31.089
were the first who started
writing the indictment against me

1:16:31.169 --> 1:16:33.879
for reasons that are obvious?

1:16:35.090 --> 1:16:36.590
[Milošević speaking Serbian]

1:16:36.675 --> 1:16:38.925
[female translator]
Is that right or is that not right?

1:16:39.845 --> 1:16:41.425
I believe that's not right.

1:16:42.765 --> 1:16:45.305
Our job is to document violations.

1:16:46.268 --> 1:16:47.938
We do that.

1:16:48.020 --> 1:16:52.070
We do not start with an end result,

1:16:52.149 --> 1:16:55.319
a conclusion or an aim,

1:16:55.402 --> 1:17:00.492
and then search for the facts
that will lead us to that conclusion.

1:17:01.449 --> 1:17:07.369
We start with research in the field
that leads us up to the end.

1:17:09.166 --> 1:17:12.206
[Fred]
That's why it's important to do it right.

1:17:12.294 --> 1:17:13.924
You lay it out there so people say,

1:17:14.004 --> 1:17:17.134
"Okay, they convinced me.
There's enough here."

1:17:18.717 --> 1:17:22.887
I honestly felt like
I had a responsibility,

1:17:22.971 --> 1:17:26.391
that every person who told me their story

1:17:26.474 --> 1:17:29.774
and relived this horrible experience,

1:17:29.853 --> 1:17:34.443
that I now owed them
their moment in court,

1:17:34.524 --> 1:17:37.994
and this was a chance for me
to represent them.

1:17:38.946 --> 1:17:39.986
So...

1:17:47.830 --> 1:17:51.120
Today could go down in history
as the day that changed everything

1:17:51.208 --> 1:17:54.418
in a war that's already
killed over 100,000 people.

1:17:54.502 --> 1:17:57.462
In Syria, hundreds more are dead,
many of them children,

1:17:57.547 --> 1:18:00.967
but this time it appears
deadly chemical weapons were used.

1:18:01.885 --> 1:18:03.675
[man speaking Arabic]

1:18:05.180 --> 1:18:07.430
[newswoman]
The rebels fighting the Assad regime

1:18:07.515 --> 1:18:11.475
say Syrian government troops
fired rockets on these innocents,

1:18:11.561 --> 1:18:14.691
rockets carrying poisonous gas.

1:18:16.149 --> 1:18:18.779
[people screaming and moaning]

1:18:18.861 --> 1:18:19.861
[screaming and moaning continues]

1:18:30.956 --> 1:18:32.286
I mean, that's...

1:18:32.374 --> 1:18:37.464
You just come face-to-face
with unbelievable events,

1:18:37.545 --> 1:18:39.045
they are just so unbelievable,

1:18:39.131 --> 1:18:44.051
you just imagine what went through
these people's heads when they did this.

1:18:44.136 --> 1:18:49.516
What possesses people to
commit those kind of horrific crimes?

1:18:49.599 --> 1:18:51.729
And I don't have an answer.

1:18:54.562 --> 1:18:55.692
That's the...

1:18:58.150 --> 1:19:00.070
question I'm often left with.

1:19:00.152 --> 1:19:02.072
How can people do this?

1:19:08.160 --> 1:19:10.410
CBS News has learned that the Pentagon

1:19:10.495 --> 1:19:12.745
is making the initial preparations

1:19:12.831 --> 1:19:16.711
for a cruise missile attack
on Syrian government forces.

1:19:16.794 --> 1:19:19.964
The United States warned Syria months ago

1:19:20.047 --> 1:19:23.927
that using chemical weapons
could provoke a U.S. response.

1:19:24.009 --> 1:19:26.849
When dictators commit atrocities,

1:19:26.929 --> 1:19:30.019
they depend upon the world
to look the other way

1:19:30.098 --> 1:19:32.768
until those horrifying pictures
fade from memory.

1:19:33.811 --> 1:19:36.021
But these things happened.

1:19:36.104 --> 1:19:37.824
The facts cannot be denied.

1:19:37.898 --> 1:19:39.358
We have breaking news tonight,

1:19:39.441 --> 1:19:43.951
Vladimir Putin has spoken
in a New York Times op-ed piece.

1:19:44.029 --> 1:19:46.699
[newsman] In the piece,
Putin denied the Syrian regime

1:19:46.782 --> 1:19:49.532
ordered the August 21st sarin gas attack,

1:19:49.617 --> 1:19:51.997
writing, "There is every reason to believe
it was used

1:19:52.079 --> 1:19:53.659
not by the Syrian Army,

1:19:53.746 --> 1:19:55.286
but by opposition forces

1:19:55.373 --> 1:19:59.093
to provoke intervention
by their powerful foreign patrons."

1:19:59.169 --> 1:20:02.049
Putin then wagged a finger
at U.S.-led military actions

1:20:02.130 --> 1:20:04.340
in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya.

1:20:04.424 --> 1:20:07.054
Putin's op-ed was all about

1:20:07.135 --> 1:20:09.545
what Putin needs to
tell the American people

1:20:09.637 --> 1:20:13.807
and it was just so blatant and cynical
about what he does,

1:20:13.892 --> 1:20:16.022
such a pure propaganda piece.

1:20:16.103 --> 1:20:19.613
You know,
it's just a bunch of total, um, crap,

1:20:19.689 --> 1:20:22.069
but it gets a lot of pick up.

1:20:22.150 --> 1:20:25.360
It's not every day that the
Russian President publishes op-ed.

1:20:25.445 --> 1:20:30.525
So Anya wrote a quick op-ed earlier today

1:20:30.617 --> 1:20:34.287
that got covered everywhere, pretty much.

1:20:36.539 --> 1:20:38.169
[Anna sighs] Yep.

1:20:39.126 --> 1:20:40.626
[cameraman] So you called him out?

1:20:40.710 --> 1:20:42.380
Sort of, yeah.

1:20:44.464 --> 1:20:45.674
Uh...

1:20:51.471 --> 1:20:54.931
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm one of
the press contacts on this one as well.

1:20:55.017 --> 1:20:58.397
[chuckles] Yeah, my maternity leave
hasn't quite kicked in.

1:20:58.478 --> 1:21:00.188
It's great. No, it's great to be active

1:21:00.272 --> 1:21:04.442
because if I don't, I'll...
What else would I do?

1:21:04.526 --> 1:21:06.776
Sit here and look at my belly? [laughs]

1:21:12.034 --> 1:21:14.124
[man speaking French]
I'll be ready in five minutes.

1:21:14.202 --> 1:21:15.662
[Peter speaking English] Okay.

1:21:18.040 --> 1:21:22.130
Human Rights Watch carried out
its own independent investigation

1:21:22.210 --> 1:21:25.210
into the chemical weapons attack
on August 21st.

1:21:25.297 --> 1:21:28.297
We have contact
with the activist on the ground,

1:21:28.383 --> 1:21:32.053
and we were able to
establish that the attack

1:21:32.137 --> 1:21:35.217
was a chemical weapons attack.

1:21:35.307 --> 1:21:37.937
It used, most likely, sarin gas

1:21:38.018 --> 1:21:41.648
and we were able to identify
the very specific rockets

1:21:41.729 --> 1:21:43.189
which were used in the attack,

1:21:43.273 --> 1:21:45.153
which strongly indicate

1:21:45.233 --> 1:21:48.073
that the Syrian government
was responsible for the attack.

1:21:48.153 --> 1:21:52.953
[woman on phone] On what facts
do you base these allegations

1:21:53.033 --> 1:21:56.833
that it was the Assad regime
who used sarin?

1:21:56.911 --> 1:21:59.211
Yes, because they used
two specific rockets,

1:21:59.289 --> 1:22:02.629
and only the Syrian government
is known to possess these rockets

1:22:02.709 --> 1:22:05.459
and their associated rocket launchers,

1:22:05.545 --> 1:22:09.255
and also the amount of sarin
which would have been used in the attack

1:22:09.341 --> 1:22:12.971
would be between
500 and 1,000 liters of sarin.

1:22:13.053 --> 1:22:16.313
And there are no indications
that opposition forces

1:22:16.389 --> 1:22:19.679
have either these rockets,
their associated launching systems,

1:22:19.767 --> 1:22:23.647
or that amount of sarin to
carry out such a large-scale attack.

1:22:27.943 --> 1:22:29.743
So, this is the rocket

1:22:29.819 --> 1:22:32.699
and when it hits the ground,
there's an explosive charge at the front.

1:22:32.780 --> 1:22:37.620
It blows off the front of the warhead
and it disperses the sarin gas.

1:22:37.702 --> 1:22:40.372
[cameraman]
Is anyone listening to you out there?

1:22:40.455 --> 1:22:44.035
Yeah. This report received
a hell of a lot of attention.

1:22:44.126 --> 1:22:49.336
I got messages back from both the French
and the U.S. intelligence community

1:22:49.422 --> 1:22:51.422
saying our report is better than theirs,

1:22:51.508 --> 1:22:56.008
so... it established
several very important facts.

1:22:56.929 --> 1:22:59.309
And I think once we released our report,

1:22:59.391 --> 1:23:03.851
the Russians and others basically
realized that the game was up,

1:23:03.936 --> 1:23:07.436
that denying that the Syrian government
was responsible for this attack

1:23:07.524 --> 1:23:10.154
was going to become very difficult.

1:23:17.825 --> 1:23:19.945
Human Rights Watch
issued a report this week

1:23:20.037 --> 1:23:23.707
stating that based on its
own independent evidence and assessment,

1:23:23.790 --> 1:23:26.330
Human Rights Watch finds
that Syrian government forces

1:23:26.418 --> 1:23:29.588
were almost certainly responsible
for the August 21st attacks.

1:23:29.671 --> 1:23:32.091
[newsman]
This weekend, after intense talks,

1:23:32.174 --> 1:23:34.344
the U.S. and Russia hammered down a deal.

1:23:34.426 --> 1:23:36.886
[newsman]
The 15-member U.N. Security Council

1:23:36.969 --> 1:23:39.429
has unanimously adopted a resolution

1:23:39.514 --> 1:23:42.524
that demands the eradication
of Syria's chemical weapons.

1:23:42.600 --> 1:23:46.730
Together the world,
with a single voice for the first time,

1:23:46.813 --> 1:23:50.943
is imposing binding obligations
on the Assad regime,

1:23:51.026 --> 1:23:52.776
requiring it to get rid of weapons

1:23:52.860 --> 1:23:57.240
that have been used
to devastating effect as tools of terror.

1:23:59.909 --> 1:24:03.209
[Fred]
We're not gonna stop this war in Syria.

1:24:03.288 --> 1:24:05.118
We're not gonna stop any war.

1:24:06.708 --> 1:24:11.048
For me, it's just about making the war

1:24:11.129 --> 1:24:15.379
a bit more tolerable
for the people stuck in it.

1:24:16.301 --> 1:24:21.511
And I am a thoroughly convinced believer

1:24:21.598 --> 1:24:24.558
that, in darkness, abuse takes place,

1:24:25.518 --> 1:24:28.478
especially those in power.

1:24:28.563 --> 1:24:31.983
If you give them the ability
to do something in darkness,

1:24:32.067 --> 1:24:34.147
the likelihood is they'll do it.

1:24:35.237 --> 1:24:41.237
I see our job
as putting a bit of a brake on that.

1:24:41.326 --> 1:24:44.286
But at least people know what's happening,
you know?

1:24:44.371 --> 1:24:48.671
They are confronted with the reality
of what's happening in a different place

1:24:48.750 --> 1:24:52.920
and they have to make the moral choices
about what they want to do.

1:24:53.796 --> 1:24:56.756
[Anna] We put a lot of effort
into collecting this information,

1:24:56.841 --> 1:24:59.471
processing it, putting it
together and publicizing it,

1:24:59.552 --> 1:25:00.892
and I think it paid off.

1:25:01.971 --> 1:25:06.481
The fact that we won't see, hopefully,
another chemical attack

1:25:06.559 --> 1:25:09.189
is a major breakthrough.

1:25:09.271 --> 1:25:12.401
But that does not really bring any relief

1:25:12.482 --> 1:25:15.072
to all those people
who continue to be killed

1:25:15.152 --> 1:25:17.202
by conventional weapons.

1:25:17.279 --> 1:25:22.159
You really go from hope to despair
to hope back to despair,

1:25:22.950 --> 1:25:25.330
and then you meet somebody on the ground,

1:25:25.412 --> 1:25:28.582
a witness, a victim,
an incredible activist,

1:25:28.665 --> 1:25:31.705
and you feel that
if they haven't given up,

1:25:31.793 --> 1:25:34.593
how on earth do you have the right
to give up on them?

1:25:49.143 --> 1:25:51.653
[Ole] So far you're doing very well.

1:25:53.064 --> 1:25:54.944
-Okay?
-[inhales sharply] Ow, ow...

1:26:01.948 --> 1:26:03.328
[Danya] Hi.

1:26:03.408 --> 1:26:04.778
Hello.

1:26:05.493 --> 1:26:06.493
All right, come and say hello?

1:26:10.332 --> 1:26:11.872
Oh, my God.

1:26:13.084 --> 1:26:14.504
Look at this one.

1:26:17.129 --> 1:26:18.339
[cooing]

1:26:25.179 --> 1:26:27.639
[whispering]
Very good. Very good.

1:26:27.724 --> 1:26:28.734
[cell phone rings]

1:26:28.808 --> 1:26:31.098
[man on phone] Anna, can we set up
an interview for today?

1:26:31.186 --> 1:26:34.186
It's about the executions,
right, in Baida?

1:26:34.272 --> 1:26:36.522
-You know...
-[man on phone speaking indistinctly]

1:26:36.608 --> 1:26:38.068
Okay, so I...

1:26:38.150 --> 1:26:39.860
[stammering]

1:26:39.944 --> 1:26:41.954
What time would you like to do that?

1:26:42.029 --> 1:26:44.949
[man] I mean, I was thinking
6:30 London time...